Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Think meditation is hard. Do me a favor, take a slow, deep breath in, and now breathe out. Congratulations, you just meditated. Hi, I'm Crystal Kakowski, and this is Breathe In. Breathe out a weekly mindfulness and meditation podcast for anyone ready to own their own shit and find a little piece while doing it.
Speaker 2 00:00:27 Hey guys, it's Crystal Kowski and this week's episode, I am so excited for you to listen to, I got to interview Talk with Michael Maru. And I'm telling you this was a fast-paced, mile, a minute, insightful and thought-provoking episode. There were so many times that I found myself wanting to go back to something that we had talked about, only to have us move forward and not be able to revisit. So, I will be returning to this recording time and time and time again, and I hope that you find it as enlightening as I did. Michael Mcru, Austrian Californian multidisciplinary artist awareness and creativity educator, speaker and author. He works on raising the awareness of our limitless human potential and its wisdom. He's an advocate for helping understand neurodiversity Michael's dyslexia in dysgraphia, forced him to develop an awareness of seeing the world purely from a human perspective, creating art, completed his awareness of what it is to be truly human. You can connect with Michael through michael m.com, m i c h a e l l m.com, and I truly hope that you enjoy this one as much as I did. Welcome back to Breathe In, breathe Out. I'm Crystal Kowski. I'm thrilled you're here today. I get to chit chat for a little while with Michael Grouch. Welcome to my podcast.
Speaker 3 00:01:56 Hi Crystal. Thank you for giving me a canvas to paint
Speaker 2 00:02:00 <laugh>. It'll be a very beautiful picture. I'm really exactly excited about this. Yeah, yeah. Um, Michael, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about you, who you are, where you came from?
Speaker 3 00:02:12 Yeah. Uh, let me really, you know, make that very quick because I do it basically on every interview. Uh, I was born in Vienna. I was a sick child. I was, I got into school when I was seven. Uh, then I got the se the second hit. I was dyslexic and dysgraphic. So, um, I couldn't understand it. I had to repeat three classes at least. So I'm an an A personality, right? Yeah. And I hit probably the wall, wall. I was 50, 55. I hit the wall. Oh, I just, you know, just do it. Try it, try it, try it, try to finally got the enlightenment that I needed it, you know, and that wasn't out of a drama. It was just a, a long process of trying hard and, and, and, and self shaming and ooh. Um, and I, and I found that I'm very much, I'm just extreme than all the other humans, but basically all the humans feel the same thing that I feel, you know, per, uh, perfectly systems.
Speaker 3 00:03:19 And then you don't fit in, but you, at the same time, you're driven by your dna, n a to fit in, to be part, to be inclusive, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's what God is. And all the other stuff. I'm not going into spiritual, but I'm saying that's why you want to experience power. It's not having billions. You want to experience power is be without of humans and see it as a part of you. Then you experienced, uh, power. Uh, and, um, so we are driven DNA to be inclusive, but then the system says you're not normal, even though the system doesn't define normal, you know, fitting in. What is that? What is being a good girl? What is a good boy? What is that? There's no definition, but there's an unbelievable request of that, right? That everybody's supposed to be a good per a good citizen, a good Christian, a good whatever, Muslim, a good whatever.
Speaker 3 00:04:16 And that, because those, those are system requirements, because humans were split first in gender, first genders went together to form a family, right? Right. But then comes a system. So the tribe is already bigger systems, and you see already people separating more in women and men or whatever people are better at. And then we have a system of a city with a king. Yeah. And, and the king says, oh my God, I need to conquer this other town, and I'm gonna, what am I gonna do with, with women? You know, everybody's a human in first. Everybody's a human. And then two humans, uh, sub subcategory, wo woman and man create a family. And then tribe, everybody goes together. Uh, and it's still all humans, but in the system, all of a sudden there's a usage for you, for men, warrior for women. Hey, just do the ba do do all the other dirty work.
Speaker 3 00:05:27 You just clean, make babies. So that's, that's, that's how deep the root of woman versus man is, you know, as this, this separation that actually, look, I always say, look, in nature, where is, where is there, I mean, is there, is there such a separation of anything? I mean, lions, you know, the woman are the hunters. And I mean, it is all kis. Everything is, is there's no strict, uh, uh, static, uh, way of, of, of, uh, how it's supposed to be, how a woman's supposed to be, how a man, how a boy should be, how adolescent, how an old person should be. And those are stereotypes that were created by systems. And then the next thing was, oh, now we conquer a foreign land and the people look different. Of course, we are a conquerors, so we are better than them. And now we come have slavery, then we are racists. And, uh, and now we, now the systems get more, you know, uh, intricate mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So now the, let's separate them into sexuality. And the fact that we have L B, G, D A, B, C, D, F, Q, G, you know, long things is basically because we are so fluid, we cannot be defined sexually. Mm-hmm. We, we it's not, yeah. It's not definable. Right. Humans are fluid, you know,
Speaker 2 00:06:56 It's not about the sex or the gender. It's about the fact that you are a human being, which means that you have value Exactly as you are separate of the systems. But the systems exactly have been created all the way around us. And we have all ended up either willingly choosing into those systems or forcibly having it shoved down our throats to the point where we've all ascribed to man, woman, male, female, this is your job. This is my job. Instead of accepting that, you know what, I'm human no matter, nothing else matters. The fact is that I am human and I have value and worth, and I am absolutely beautiful in and of, and who I personally am.
Speaker 3 00:07:41 And you going back now to human. But look at, look at the nature in nature, the elephant and the an are the same. They are the proof of existence is the proof that they're valuable. Everybody's a different function.
Speaker 2 00:08:01 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Speaker 3 00:08:02 As far as I remember, we are still a part of, of nature, right. Humans. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we're just a different species. So every human is worth because the fact, the proof is because it, he or she exists. So this is, it's, it's it, it's a shortcut of what you said. Yeah. You, you, you, you said, yeah. And I'm beautiful, and yeah, that's a sh that's coming from the system I'm coming from. Look, don't forget, we are nature. And it's, I think it's simpler. We are nature in natures the elephant and the there's no difference. They don't say, oh my God, I wish I was an elephant, because it's so big and great and beautiful. Every, every, everything's accepted because it exists. And that's the proof. There is no system value that in the system of the Sahara, the, the, the elephant is better. No, it's not.
Speaker 3 00:08:57 And it, but in the system of religion, we are born right over generation mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's what you said. Yeah. Over generation. We are born in hospitals, a system we are baptized or, or whatever, Christians or whatever you do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> another system. We go to school, 99% of K kids have a unique trait that, that they're better than anybody else after school. It's only 3% are gifted. And there it is. So we uncondition humanity, uncondition themselves. And what the result of that is, is deep shame and self shaming. Because you think because you got a static system, and because you are conditioned from hit on. Yeah. And what it is, is we living already in a metaverse, systems are our metaverse. They are human, manmade systems. They're built by us. We are the gods of systems. We are the gods of religion. We are gods of a hospital, of a school or whatever, of Nike, of apple, of whatever.
Speaker 3 00:10:09 We are the gods of that. So we can, so I say in that right away, in that we are the gods. We can change it because we are the gods, but we cannot alter nature. We can alter nature for us. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, see, this is another disconnect. We can, we can alter nature for us. And what happened can, if, for example, Beijing, you know, the, the pollution in the Olympic games and stuff, we can put so much crap in the atmosphere. Not, not to worry about, uh, nature. Nature doesn't need us. It's, we can extinct our species by, by by not caring about the environment. It's not about if we have extinguished, humans have extinguished themselves, how often the Mayans, the Egyptians that this, all these civilization have, we have proven in a system, uh, in a system proven that we can eradicate ourselves. Yeah. But now we, through the lens of system, we think, oh, we need to save the planet.
Speaker 3 00:11:21 We don't need to save the planet. We need to save us, and we need to start getting a value. And the fact is that we want to save the planet means that we are completely oblivious because we need to save ourselves. We need to say, I gotta be, when a t-shirt takes seven, whatever, hundreds of gallons of water to create a waste, you waste water with one T-shirt. Right? Then it's, then it's our water that nature functions without water, you know, it, it, it, it can go with salt water. It doesn't need drinking water. But when we do things like that, the moment I knew that I was aware, and the moment you are aware, that's why I say there's no steps or anything. This, what you and I do is expand human potential. Being aware of, that's why podcasts are so good, because we, we, human dialogue is the second strongest, uh, power that we have.
Speaker 3 00:12:26 Creativity is number one, and dialogue with between human, because we are communicating to so many senses, not just the language and the words, but the spaces, the feeling your body reacts to me. Am I my body reacts to you. So, so we, there's a lot of communication on, and it's still, according to science, it's only if we would meet in person, it would be 36%. Texting is 4%. And then the last superpower is adaptability, because that's how we make systems work. Systems cannot function if we don't adapt to them. Because in nature, everybody is different. Right? Right. And even science says we are all unique. We are one of a kind, but systems strive us to be all of the same kind. Everybody. And nobody can be weird. Nobody can have a, you know, paint their hair. I mean, it's getting better, but you really, you remember the time where you couldn't color your hairs. Every kid now has colored hair. But, but, you know.
Speaker 2 00:13:35 Yeah. Yeah. Don't be unique.
Speaker 3 00:13:38 Don't be unique. You are unique. And it's like, don't be unique.
Speaker 2 00:13:42 Don't be yourself. You
Speaker 3 00:13:44 Cannot not be uni you cannot not be unique. It's gotta sooner later hits you over the head.
Speaker 2 00:13:49 Yeah. Yeah. And without that, like, if we were all the exact same reality as this would be a really boring world,
Speaker 3 00:13:58 <laugh>. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:59 I mean,
Speaker 3 00:14:00 It's boring, isn't it? Already? I mean, things come out new from systems. Oh, look at this. And you say, I don't need to see it. I've seen that in, in some way or form, because system always, uh, you know, uh, rewards and drives us to, to copy, but only because we are unconscious. Because if we were conscious of that, we, we would use system to help us not to submit, not to surrender, not to sacrifice for the system. Yeah. How can you sacrifice for a creation that you did? You are the God of a doll, and now you say, I need to not eat so that I can give some food, pretend food to the, the, the, the doll. It, it's insanity. It's completely insanity. And we have forgotten that we are conditioned ourselves away, and we see us not as nature and not as systems. So we are the, the funnel of nothingness, you know? Yeah. We don't, we don't count because in systems, we need to count because we are, you know, we, we, we belong. And the belong we interpret by being quote unquote normal, even though that is not defined. Right. So do you see in the conundrum we are, I mean, it's, it is like,
Speaker 2 00:15:20 Yes, you can't be normal because there is no definition of normal. Nobody really actually knows what normal is. In fact, exactly. Normal has been reduced to an air quote kind of thing. Exactly. I'm going to be normal today. What does that mean? Does that mean I'm wearing Anyway? Um, I could go down a rabbit hole there, and I love it. I absolutely love, um, the way that you illustrate it and brought out the fact that, um, like the Anton, the elephant, they don't, they don't, um, argue about which one's better and which one's more, um, beneficial to the environment that they're in. And then we jumped to, uh, we talked about school and how in school we are in those systems, and we come out of school and, and we have throughout those systems learned that, oh, well, I'm not that, and since I'm, if you say you're the aunt, I'm the aunt, but I'm not as grand and beautiful and effectual and smart as that elephant, then I'm not worth anything. And so we do end up learning that shame and that minimalization, which keeps us within those boxes and that framework that the systems have created and that we've adopted mm-hmm. <affirmative> so that we can continue to at least fit in, in being normal, because the elephant is amazing. Yeah. And everyone else is just here.
Speaker 3 00:16:46 Exactly. Is a Ilio Musk and, uh, Jeff Pesos in the system of Monopoly. Right. It's a board game, basically. Yeah. I mean the, we created it and we are such genius to create this board game. And in the, the, he's a better player. You know, Elon is a better player. Uh, Jeff Basins in Monopoly doesn't make him a better human, doesn't make him a be a better thing of society. Doesn't No, society's a system too, but, but in nature, it's a human. It doesn't make him a better human. Right. He could be the most horrible person can be the monopoly king.
Speaker 2 00:17:22 Right.
Speaker 3 00:17:23 See, I
Speaker 2 00:17:24 Can be a better owner player, <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:17:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Everybody's good in one thing. And, and, and, and really if we wanna transfer it to that is we are all the best of the world in one thing. And our life is about figuring that out. You know, figuring out, getting closer to the puzzle piece that you are, me hitting the wall till 50 is finding out what is my puzzle piece. So, and, and I cannot say, oh, because all of a sudden they have a lot of money and this and this and this. No. The, the, the feedback for that, for success in the human realm is fulfillment.
Speaker 2 00:18:02 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:18:03 It's not, and success is, I beat everybody in Monopoly. Right. I am the winner of Monopoly. But in the, in the human realm is not, it is not dependent on others. It's dependent on do I feel fulfilled being Right. That's you're doing and being Yeah. Am I'm fulfilling. Being after orgasm, you feel fulfilled. You're not thinking right away, oh my God, where's the next orgasm? What is the You don't think about that, you know? Yeah. It's just, you fulfilled you, you're in the glow of that union
Speaker 2 00:18:41 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 3 00:18:43 And, and, and, and, and this fulfilled, I I'm just giving that example because everybody had a orgasm. I, I assume, you know, so, so that, that that feeling when you go out in nature and say, Jesus, that look at this, look at this unbelievable sunset, or look at this sun comes up, oh my God, or this, this, this mist going over a landscape, and you're just getting goosebumps, you know?
Speaker 2 00:19:12 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:19:13 And that's fulfillment. I mean, you hear music and it, I said, oh my God, what is that song? I need to find out? Who is this song that's fulfillment? It's, it is an experiential human being, experiential awareness, knowledge. You know, that you have experienced that. And it's not that you think it up because you can think about love and study every book in the history of love, and there's a lot of books of love, right?
Speaker 2 00:19:47 Yes.
Speaker 3 00:19:48 And you can never know what love is, what we're talking about. You, you totally, Mr. Context, if you haven't feel fell in love or be in love, you have no idea. Was all that knowledge, that is system knowledge, you know, Uhhuh
Speaker 2 00:20:04 <affirmative>,
Speaker 3 00:20:06 And it's, it's worthless. It's he being is experience.
Speaker 2 00:20:10 Yeah. I mean, the reality is that somebody like you ask a million different people what love is to them, and you will get a million different responses. And the fact of the matter is that it is different for every, everyone single person. What feels unbelievably fantastic and loved to me is so different from what you may see. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:20:30 As, and make me run the way, you know? Yeah, exactly. So, so, and, and, and, and, and, you know, and there's nothing wrong. Because see, then, then, is the comparison when you say, crystal has that experience, oh my God. And all the guys will say, oh God, if I understand that, and, and I say, no, I could run away from that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And right away comes oh five people. Like Crystal sings, one person says, okay, I understand Michael. And, and, and it's, it's not about that. Like you said, it imperfect everybody experience of love is different. Yeah. Because it's not the love that, it's not the love that it's the chemistry. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that makes it good. It is the chemistry that makes us feel we are right now in the moment not thinking of being bills or, or having pick up our, our kids or whatever. Right. So we've, we've, it's the experience in the moment in the chemistry that happens when you connect to another human being, which is very good in, in podcasts, you, you, you connect right away and you connect with p uh, other humans, and therefore you see the power because you are a reflection of me. I'm a reflection of you. And you see that power and, and, and looking for the power. Where is she? You know, even if you have no chemistry, it's just he, he or she's a part of me
Speaker 2 00:22:02 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 00:22:02 <affirmative>. Yeah. And that, that takes away the, the strain, you know?
Speaker 2 00:22:07 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. My brain, I love this conversation. I love how we're just diving deep and going for it. Yeah. Because it's so beautiful. And this is really something that I talk to people about all the time. The individual experience of life and how we all need self-care, right? We all need something to fill our cups and help us feel better. And that's like the fulfillment that you're talking about, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and what works for one doesn't work for the other. And it's, it's such, right. This experience that we are having mm-hmm. <affirmative> is, is so personal and so beautiful, and we get to enjoy that connection with other people on occasion. And then other times we get to have a little introspection and, and what fills my cup is, yeah, I is not gonna fill your cup. It goes back to that whole thing about who are you and what does your puzzle piece look like, and how can you embody that more and the systems that are out there less.
Speaker 3 00:23:10 I think, you know, I'm, I'm thinking my, my, you know, I, because it, I'm so, um, it's really important for me to, to make people aware of this.
Speaker 2 00:23:21 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:23:21 I think why is it, why did it come that we are in, in a mega metaverse, which is called systems, right? We are born in, so we, we experience humanity through systems.
Speaker 2 00:23:38 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:23:39 And there's cultures and there's rules in every system. It's a different rule. Yeah. So you never be yourself. So that, that, you know, I, I was thinking, you, you can never be yourself because you're born in this. You have parents that are conditioned and conditioned you to a religion. You go into school, that's a conditioning. So we are in a metaverse, and we somehow have to pull us out. Not that systems are bad. You are not aware that you in a metaverse. How, why would, uh, the, the Facebook guy, uh, <laugh>, you know, um, why would, why would he try to do a metaverse be because he's oblivious that we are already living in a metaverse. Yeah. So you can be less yourself and he sells it to you. Like the system always sells you. If you are, it should be every day, it should be sunshine.
Speaker 3 00:24:32 Right? That's a lie also that the system tells every day should be sunshine. If it's not, we sell you a Ferrari, a peel, or a face job, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then you, and then you and I, we buy the Ferrari, the bill in the face shop, right? Uhhuh, <affirmative>. And then we feel not fulfilled. We feel people say, oh, you look so good, and the Ferrari, and you, and, and, and we are not feeling that we are not feeling fulfilled. Right. What does the system say then? And then it says the message that every human gets while navigating through system, there's something inherently wrong with you.
Speaker 2 00:25:10 Wrong with you.
Speaker 3 00:25:12 And that's the core of the shame. That's the core of all the shame. Because it, in the limitlessness, in that limit limit, it's so limited the system.
Speaker 2 00:25:23 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:25:24 It cannot have all the facets. We have all the senses and all our, we can deal with each other. Like, if you freak out right now and know what to do, and you, we don't have to practice that. Or if I freak out, you know what to do. You don't have to know me. You don't have to get a training or anything. I mean, I, I was a politician, uh, an arts politician, and I, I had to do I think two days of ethical training mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and it was common sense. We completely lost our com common sense. Yeah. And it's like, why not saying, Hey, listen, you should know what is tactful. You should know that it, it, they shouldn't be defined by the society or the system. You should know, Hey, I can't pull my pants down and poop in the, the middle of the floor. You know? Right. I, I, I, you should know that you're going. I mean, dogs know where to go poop, you know? So you are part of, here's
Speaker 2 00:26:23 The, but you do have to train dogs. No, in cats.
Speaker 3 00:26:27 But, but have you seen that, that, that the dogs in the environmental live in the poop. Nobody lives, lives in there. No.
Speaker 2 00:26:34 They, they don't. They, they
Speaker 3 00:26:36 Go, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:26:37 But as, as little puppies, if you don't teach them that they need to go outside, they will go wherever. And it might be, but again,
Speaker 3 00:26:44 Really quick, it's adapting. That's, that's the nature adapting. I'm saying you're right. Because we pull them into an environment, into a metaverse that they are not used to, you know, in nature, they, they go in a corner and poop. But Yeah. But Yeah. But, but in, in the, you bring them in. Uh, but you see in this example, right away, they're, they're adapting nature always adapt. Remember when the first high rising, uh, uh, where in middles or in the Amazon, all that birds flew against the, against the glass. And I think it's not anymore because they learned nature already adapt. You have, you have, you have eagles, you have hawks, you have pigeons and all this stuff living in those higher, they're adapted.
Speaker 2 00:27:31 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:27:32 That's why I say, you know, nature is always adapting. The, the, the power of nature is balance. Always keeping balance with can adapt.
Speaker 2 00:27:43 So you struggled and you dealt with a lot of challenges. Yeah. Up until you were 55. How did you come to this? How did you come to this understanding and this new, um, perspective on the world?
Speaker 3 00:27:56 Okay, so dyslexia sees, you see that with Richard Princeton. And, and people that have dyslexia is actually not, uh, disability. It's only a disability in, in the system, but it's not a disability in human. Cuz I see context, I have zero education. I mean, basically I tried to get my gde, uh, but it, it is just, I, I couldn't understand. I couldn't repeat.
Speaker 2 00:28:21 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:28:22 And also with my dysgraphia, where I write something down, I could read something you wrote five years ago, and I can't dec decipher one, one. My dis disconnect with, with my handwriting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> tomorrow I couldn't, I couldn't read it. So it's really hard. While I was in school today, you have a keyboard and you can do this. And, uh, I didn't know it was a superpower. I realized about 50 that what I see is not wrong. It's actually right. What I see, my perception of reality is Correct. At least for me, you know?
Speaker 2 00:29:00 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:29:01 But 120 interviews later, I see it's correct for everybody else because I don't have pushback. I say, oh, that's bullshit. You know, because I go, I go with the human and nature thing. That's the highest truth. Human and nature is the highest truth. Uh, system is a very low truth, knowledge, whatever. And it's here, systems are here to, to support us and not to stack our life. Shoes out, fill out forms to comp, adapting. Cause they're so limited. We need to fill out forms. If systems were really God created, nobody ever knew would need for out a form or anything, you know? But, and we pray to them, we say, oh my God, they're so great. You know, you can't even pick up a phone anymore. In the old times, at least you picked up the handle and, and, and talk the fri freaking sliders and these to do this.
Speaker 3 00:29:55 You know? I mean, it's a very simple example. But, but, but that's not elegant, you know? Yeah. Elegant should be. It knows like a human. It knows. You pick it up and you hold it to your ear and it just start talking. Yeah. That it rings like, like the old days. You hang it up and, and, and, and, and again. So I, I became aware of that. It's a superpower. And I, you know, articles you read, you, you, you read, you, I'm listening to articles. Um, and, and I get aware, you get aware, and I got aware through art. Art was my creating art, not the art product. The art product was also interesting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But it's the creating creation of art. I felt always. No. And then I looked at the, I looked at art making. I, I looked at that dynamic of a theater group, of a band of whatever.
Speaker 3 00:30:57 And I saw that's organic. That's so much more organic than in the system. So in, you know, corporate structure, you have a c e o, blah, blah, blah. CEO has no idea what the, what the worker does. What the worker does in the shoe factory. C e o has no clue how it experiential is. He is no awareness. He says, I get so many shoes, one a default. We try to fix that. And, and, and that's it. And so much money I get. So he's, yeah. He's handling, uh, in man constructs. You know, he is not man in, in human. It's a system. He is system navigating. He's not human navigating, uh, uh, navigating in the theater. That's why I say art so important, because when you play, see a play, okay, there might be two leads. Right? Right. But everybody else, if the lighting is not okay, if anybody, if the interior is not good, if anything cracks.
Speaker 3 00:32:04 So there is a, is an, an unconscious togetherness in that, that we create this play. And tonight is the night and tomorrow is the same. It's the night, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's one thing of, of thing. And that in, in, in theory, you don't care if it's a woman or a man, if the person is any race or sexuality, it's about the play. Yeah. It's about what we together recreate. Yeah. And, and there is no, you don't need a right. Say, okay, we need to have two black actors, two lesbian actors, and two thing you, that, that doesn't exist in art. It says whoever is the best person for that part. I mean, they try, they try now to do that, but it doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's, it's, you know, and, and there's a good thing when you look at art, look at paintings and tell me what race, what color that person is.
Speaker 3 00:33:05 Hmm. And because of that, just because of that racism, I, I denounce racism, genderism, and sexuality, it's bullshit. You cannot, even if it was really had any merit, which systems say, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if it had any merit, and society says too, by the way, and society is a system too, then you could tell when you see, and, and obviously on the thematic, you can tell, but if you look at, at music, listen to music, listen to p paintings, and you can tell me who that is by not knowing the, the song before, you know, yeah. That Jay-Z did that song, you know, if you don't know that. So yeah, you tell me that, then I say, oh, we should be all racist, all gender phobic. We should all be sexual, uh, deviance. But this is this, this is, that's why I say it's so powerful if you get that.
Speaker 3 00:34:07 And how, how can it be, and this is my, from my last book, railroad, is I couldn't believe that it saved my life. It made me feel a part of humanity. Right. Through experience theater and all this stuff and groups. And it's 97% o o of artists, uh, on the poverty level worldwide. Yeah. But, and when you look at our world, everything is created. Your podcast is created, my background is created, you know, everything in this world is created. Apple, Nike, McDonald's, all these companies, states, countries, everything is created. Yeah. And how can the highest form that isn't for a purpose of a country or, uh, merchandise or whatever, created the highest form. That's just creation for creation's sake is completely ignored. An artist is called a hobby. See, but that's, that shows you the, that shows you the, the system conditioning. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they seem to this with humans, humans are a nuisance.
Speaker 3 00:35:16 Right. You are faulty and should be happy that you are in this society and this, this thing. And there's a shaming again in there. And art, you can't do this with art. They try to do it with art. But the art world, as I know it, as we all know it, is actually about the product. It's like a Walmart of conversation that pe that artists had from the un from the nonphysical to the physical. So I define an art products, music, painting, uh, uh, poet, uh, poetry or anything, book as a con, a physical represent sensation of the communication from your nonphysical to the physical. And the clearer I am in this conversation mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the more you will recognize it and the more you will resonate with it. Because you ha you know that knowledge, you, you have that knowledge in you. It's says inherent superpower. Right. You will look at a piece of art, not at any, you can be a ous too. But, but you, you, if somebody's clear in your frequency that you recognize that you don't care, you pay whatever needs to be paid, you just buy it. You just say, this is transforming this piece
Speaker 2 00:36:31 Because it has that value to you as where you are at in your humanity. Exactly. Exactly. Because it, yeah. I, I am like you. I absolutely love theater. It was something that transformed my life as well, because Exactly Right. The first show I did, I was 30 years old. <laugh>. Yeah. Like 33. And it was, it was the first time that I realized I had worth and value as a human being outside of being so-and-so's mom, outside of being so-and-so's wife, or outside of the label of my job and all of the other systems that are out there. Yeah. Religion that I was in. I went to that theater and I'm working with these 33 other people to create this show. And nobody cared. Nobody cared who you were. Well, who you were is the wrong word, but yeah. Like your gender, pr your sexuality. Yeah. Your gender, your, your color, anything. Nobody cared. It was all, there's
Speaker 3 00:37:25 No focus on that. There's no focus.
Speaker 2 00:37:27 We're all here so that we can create this unbelievably awesome show. And it was so beautiful. That to this day, has such a fanta fantastic warm spot in my heart. Oh. Because it is such a gift to be reminded that this is a moment, this is a gift to come
Speaker 3 00:37:46 Together. And you are a humanity. Recognize that. See, that's, that's the power. It's is superpower is the number one superpower is art creation and creation. Art creation is the number one superpower. Because youi can all align us back to being human. Are, I mean, what do kids do when they have, uh, parents that fight and whatever, they go in a corner and doodle that because that keeps them in the moment. Uhhuh <affirmative>. And that keeps 'em in the moment and makes something pretty and, and, and, and, and keeps them feedback, right. Like you said. Yeah. I felt worthy. And when you draw something mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the skill of drawing reflects to you, you can't be not worth anything because you're drawing something. Doesn't matter how good or whatever system says. Or you're singing something, or you're playing something,
Speaker 2 00:38:35 Or you're writing something. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:38:40 I just heard my sister say, she hasn't, you know, she's an artist too, but she hasn't played for a while piano. And she says, I went back for like, not a long time, like three months. She wasn't into, into playing piano. And she says, oh my God, I have so missed it. And I, it just, I'm a different person. And that is, and only art can do this. Nobody can do this. It's, it's only art creation. And it's not about the product. If you try to create, we're saying this is gonna be the next super song. This is gonna be the best. You will never get there. It's, it's, it's like a main construct for future trip.
Speaker 2 00:39:20 Yeah. Thank you for telling me about your sister. Because I have a piano in my house and system. The systems trained me out of loving playing because I made too many mistakes. And because I made mistakes. I don't wait. Wisdom, mistake. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, um, I don't like to play when other people are around because I'm personally insecure because the system has trained me to be insecure. But then other people are like, would you just play? I don't care if it's so I haven't touched that piano. I can't, I'm, I'm ashamed to tell you even how long it has been since I have touched that piano. And yet it sits there waiting for me to feel free enough.
Speaker 3 00:40:00 Exactly. You know what? I give you a a a, I give you one quote that, that will never, uh, you know, miles Davis, right?
Speaker 2 00:40:11 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:40:12 And he says, there is no false note. And think about that in the con human context, because we, there is no secure quote, there's no false human being there is that the beggar in on Fifth Avenue has m more impact than you and I, cuz everybody walks around him. Everybody, you know, our gives him money or goes on the other side of the streets or tries to look away or not think about it.
Speaker 2 00:40:41 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:40:42 And the sad thing of the story, so, so the beggar is not aware that because here, system value zero, here's a nuisance. Yeah. If we could, if the system could, there would be no handicap, no thing would be all rid of those people. We don't need them. They don't, they're lazy people. Right. Another system, term lazy people. Where's lazy in nature. There's no such thing as lazy in nature. So anyway, so the other people are unaware. They're affected, but unaware why they're affected. Because they're playing monopoly and they know, know, you know, in monopoly from one day of the other, you can end up like this.
Speaker 2 00:41:22 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:41:23 Yeah. And that's why they're, they're uncomfortable and they try to compensate giving money or something. Yes. And the saddest story of the hole is all are unconscious. All are unconscious of the humanity, the, the system. They experience each other through the systems. It's like saying, okay, this is a cow person. I it's a, it's a, a person of color. He's bad. No, he's not. And once you experience, you know, I, I talk to people all over the world. We are all the same. We are all the same. And everybody's unique, but we have the same human values. And that's, I think that's what is, we need to discover right now. Stop shaming because you can never be perfect because you're one of one stop shaming, because that's the, the spiritual problem. Because you say you, you exist and you say this, I'm flawed. You can't be flawed.
Speaker 3 00:42:34 You can't, it's impossible. And, and nature has no surplus. Has no lack has, uh, is always have a solution. Always adjusts and is perfect. Every science will tell you, they don't even know how water comes from, from roots. They can't replicate how water come, uh, from roots against gravity into leaves. Yeah. And, and as long as na nature is perfect, we are perfect. Because as far as I thought is we are still part of nature, which is a different species, but we are part of nature. Yeah. We are not better. We are not worse. We are part of nature. I'm not saying, oh, you are the same as a turtle. Now you're obviously not the same as a turtle, but as your office is not the same as an elephant either. It's just you're just a different kind. We don't, that eagle sees better than we do.
Speaker 3 00:43:34 We just have, okay, we have a, we are conscious of being conscious, you know, so let's use that instead of becoming more unconscious. And just like with the begar, you know, just walking by each other, all reacting versus acting. Because what you do with, in, in this system, you're just reacting. You try to get attention, say crystal, crystal, look, look, look crystal. And you lost your dream of thought. You lost what you were supposed to think for about, and I get all the attention and then I see nothing and I wanna sell you something. It, it, this is, this is making a, the highest, the number one, the number one value in system is attention. Currently. You get attention. Nobody has the time. Crystal. Nobody has the time. You could be the perfect person, uh, to that this could be the best perfect show, uh, episode.
Speaker 3 00:44:30 And the people have not the time to find it. It doesn't matter how much advertising you do. And by the way, advertising budget has not changed in 50 years because it's just shifting from, okay, now we gonna do all that. Everybody does podcasts and this, but you need to do the podcast because of the experience. Then money will come later. I mean, that's why you do art milk the moment. Milk the moment, then you feel rich. Like you felt rich after the theater. Yeah. So milk the moment, everything else is a man construct anyway, you know?
Speaker 2 00:45:08 Yeah. Milk the being.
Speaker 3 00:45:12 Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:45:15 Yeah. The being, not the doing. Which I absolutely, that is, that is the message I so have needed to hear over the last little while. And so I'm very, very grateful for you, um, bringing it out and reminding me that it's in the being. It's in those moments. It's in those, because I remember that, and I think we all remember that on some levels. Yeah. There are moments that we're like, gosh, this is amazing. And we get to take a moment to take that in. But I think there are moments that we start to lean more on the system and believe more in the system and believe that we're supposed to be quote unquote, um, more than we are. And, and that's when we start to feel more shame and more sadness, because we aren't achieving, we aren't doing more. We aren't contributing to whatever society and the systems say we are. And when we lose that vision, when we lose that sight mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it is so far to fall. And yet all we have to do is take a step sideways and remind ourselves being in this moment as a gift. So I'm probably going to be, um, making little signs and putting them all over my house <laugh> to remind me of, um, my humanity versus the systems and being and doing. And they're things that I have thought about before. And yet the way that you put it, the vocabulary that you're using right now is so, it's,
Speaker 3 00:46:44 It's not system, it's not system vocabulary, you know,
Speaker 2 00:46:48 It's just No. Yeah. It's, it's speaking to me in my heart in this moment. And I'm very grateful that, um, the humanity and the universe, the powers that be, have brought us together so that I can Yeah. Enjoy that. So thank you so much,
Speaker 3 00:47:03 <laugh>, uh, crystal, I, I give you other, other thing is what we forgot is that we are driven in inclu to inclusion. We, in order to find the puzzle piece that we are in the human weave,
Speaker 2 00:47:21 Uhhuh,
Speaker 3 00:47:22 <affirmative>, we gather experience other humans, we gather experience and not as me versus them. Me better than me. Yeah. Yeah. So we need to experience how, I mean, you, you people can see that in this episode how people can build up the energy. People feel the energy that's going on between us. Yeah. And, and, and, and that, that energy is, is the experiential energy of togetherness. We are supposed to be together. We have a fraction of, you can say a, a part of God or whatever mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, we are a, a part of a bigger thing. Right. And the defining our, our def definition of what, what part am I not in the system, but as a human, you might have zero system value. But look what the beggar on Fifth Avenue has the value, the awareness that he triggers. Sadly, he's not aware either, but the, the awareness, he, it triggers that people, I said, Hey, hey, hey, reality hits you.
Speaker 3 00:48:33 You can end up like this and all that bullshit with a Christmas shopping and, and, and, and this and that, shopping and doing what everybody does at that time, it's irrelevant. Yeah. It's, it's, you can be one day really great, uh, Christmas, and then you'll be the, the worst father or the worst mother or whatever, you know, or the worst kid for that matter. So it, it's, it's really, you need to know that, that, I mean, I'm connecting again to sexuality, because you are most fertile human. This is also a d n a drive. You are most fertile when you're like 15, 16 to whatever, 24 or 28. I think 28 is the DNA marker when it actually stops the drive. But the drive of being inclusive doesn't stop. See, when they're 28, the marker stops because after 28, according to nature to our thing, you, you don't have a drive.
Speaker 3 00:49:33 Meaning, not that you all of a sudden don't want sex, but it's not a driven thing. You have sex because you are, you know, you are, you like this person or whatever you want when you are till 28, uh, you are for, you believe that you want to have babies. And you don't even know, you don't want have babies. It's, it's just a dr a drive. We are driven by our d n A to procreate, because that's the best window. 20, uh, 15 to to 28 is the best window to procreate for humanity to, to, to sustain the species. But the drive to be inclusive doesn't stop. It doesn't have a thing. You always wanna, til your last breath, you wanna figure out, not figure out that studying, sense it experiencing what is your, what, what is your puzzle piece. Yeah. And, and, and then, because I hate that.
Speaker 3 00:50:34 I, I I, I mean, I don't hate it, but I, I, I, I think it's so ridiculous to think, what do you want your legacy to be? You are a legacy no matter what you, you know, it's, it's funny to see what you want in my leg legacy. You wanna be, I wanna be the, the Elias. That is not a legacy. That is a system definition. It's not a legacy in the human, in the human weave. Yeah. It's not a legacy in the Einstein was in the system too. He's not a thing for in the human weave, he did very smart things. What is your puzzle piece? How do you fit in? Right. Without fame, without success, it doesn't, it is not dependent on this. Obviously, the more you fit in, the more the system recognizes you. It is like the artist, the clearer you end the communication, if you keep practicing the nonphysical to the physical, to, to, to, to clear it will be.
Speaker 3 00:51:34 Right. And to more radical people will react to that. Meaning they either push you away and say, no, that's not, that's not my thing. Or they will embrace you. But it isn't, it is always a yin and yang. It's not mean because you found your puzzle piece that you're gonna be liked, but you will find parts where you fit in. There's two things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> one is the space to fit in. Right, right. The puzzle piece where you put it. And the other first is to find it. And then the second is, now where do I fit in? Yeah. So, so the, the first step in, in evolution of humans that I see is you find your path. So I'm say I hit the wall, hit the wall, hit the wall. Yeah. You find it, you, you find art with 30, you find, ah, everything I did is art.
Speaker 3 00:52:25 I don't need the system. Tell me I'm an artist. I am an artist. So you integrate that. It's a part of me at my puzzle piece. Yeah. And then you keep going and you keep going. And now you have to find where once you have a kind of a puzzle piece, you see where I'm a and then you have to find that. And that's also important, you know? Right. But the clearer you are, you, the happier will be because you're at least clear, independent on the puzzle. The, the play you're dependent on. Okay. I know I'm that puzzle. Yeah. And, and, and that, that, that gives you inner peace. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I mean, inner, inner piece should give you that. You are one of one. Nobody is like you. That should give you in a piece, you know, and you unique. Yeah. So you can't fit in a system. Nobody can fit in a system. You can adapt with your superpower to be a system nav navigator. But, and some people are, are more unconscious as you know, they can be the best su system. Uh, they can be like robots. So I'm not afraid of having robot robots out. I'm afraid of humans. So adjusting that, they act like you robots, you know? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:53:34 <affirmative>. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:53:35 That's why you're mass shootings and all this stuff. So because people copy video games or whatever, they just, we have such, this, such a superpower. The adaptability. I mean, how would we survive slavery wars, uh, uh, you know, uh, Holocaust, how would we survive that? We are adaptable, like nature. That's the superpower. Yeah. And the soup, the ultimate superpower is, which I tell leaders all the time, I, I keep te because I'm always in the leaders' position. So, and I had to find that out also. That was, I wasn't aware. I saw them. I'm just a loud mouse that, that, that, that, uh, you know, gets people to do things. But I realized what leadership is. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a function of the team. And what is the ultimate power balance? It's, you need both. You need all, you need the, the hard, hard asses, and you need the soft woman. You need all the stuff. And what a leader is supposed to do is balancing the team as a team member and keeping everybody in power balance. That means having people off, being human, having people laugh. Ha making the the job a fun place where you wanna go. Now, when have you heard that the last time?
Speaker 3 00:55:03 I have heard that in, in Google, where they try to do all this stuff and the people still don't like to go. So, you know, you need need to make life a, a fun, because ultimately when the work is a system related work and you don't understand what it does for humans, you can never, you know. Right. A bookkeeping. You cannot make fun a bookkeeping job. You know?
Speaker 2 00:55:27 I don't know. There are probably puzzle pieces out there that love the challenge of the numbers. And so bookkeeping is fun for them, especially if their boss, or if they are their own boss, recognizes their humanity and celebrates their humanity in exactly that joy. You know? You got it. We have the ability to create wonderful, wonderful, wonderful
Speaker 3 00:55:52 Limits. No limits. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:55:53 Limitless jobs, businesses, whatnot. Yeah. That, that support each other in the humanity aspect of life. And encourage fewer of the systems and more of the, let's celebrate our own puzzle piece. Let's celebrate our own qualities and our own uniqueness and how we all fit into this tapestry in such a beautiful way individually, and yet together to create a hole. Because like you said, we need each other as well as we need to be our own whole complete self at the same time. So there's a balance somewhat to be struck there, because we cannot, like, if we're a puzzle piece, <laugh>, I have this jar, my mom loves to do puzzles. And so I have this jar of lost puzzle pieces, and it is the saddest jar <laugh>. Yeah. Because there are four puzzle pieces in that jar. And I cannot find which puzzles these poor pieces go to. And yet they seem so alone. And each one of us is so beautiful and so unique, and we all fit into this. And in beautiful, beautiful ways. We have so much to give and so much to offer, whether you're an aunt or an elephant or a cheetah or an artwork. Yeah. It does not matter. You are even a mosquito has a reason,
Speaker 3 00:57:09 <laugh>. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you have to try to, to, to, to see it be open to that. I think it's a focus thing. I I, I'm not wanna get away off system. I don't wanna rebel or anything. I say we are the guards of system. We can't change, uh, if it's raining tomorrow or not. But we can change if a company abuses their workers. Or if 60% of this world make, have to live after work and live the workforce, 60% of the workforce has to live with five 50 a day. I mean, and we throw away, uh, two and a half times, we, we make two and a half times more food than we need. And daily diet, 25,000 people on hunger. We, if that's a system we created, and there we don't shame ourself. It's funny. We don't cha we just accept it, right? Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:58:01 We just accept it. We not shame. Oh, it's okay. As long as I have food, you know, I don't know. The 25,000 And you can't even compartmentalize it. You can, I I tell you, it's figures, it's the system. It's figures. But, but the thing is, we need to change since we are the guards, let's take responsibility of our systems and make him human adapt and, and, and, and, and on the line, first priority is humans and, uh, and nature. That is the first priority. Not God, not religion. No system. Human in nature as far as we know from experiencing is number one. And we created system. We are making sure that we don't pollute the, the, the, the nature for us. Nature does it. You can't destroy nature. It it, when you look at gen noil, the, a atomic reactor, it's all overgrown in hundred years. You don't even see that there was atomic reactor. We don't need to save, because that's just a distraction. Again, we don't need to save nature. We need to save us. And the impact that we do on nature, that we don't extinguish us. But yeah, you can leave nature alone. It doesn't matter. It adapts.
Speaker 3 00:59:23 Huh? It's a different, but see, there's a different perspective on of how, you know, uh, you know, recycle plastic and all that stuff. It's a different, it's not a doing, it's an understanding and awareness. Yeah. And when you get that awareness out, the change will happen automatically. I buy, when I see t-shirts now, and I know there's gallons and gallons of water, 800 liters of, of of water is used by one T-shirt. And see, this is the discrepancy. If a t-shirt costs five, you buy five t-shirts. If a t-shirt would cost the real right amount of money, and you can wear it forever. I mean, how many things you're throwing away? It's, it's, it's 10% of the carbon F footprint is, is, uh, is closing. I mean, and we can't, well, and you tell me we have no power over this. We created this crap.
Speaker 2 01:00:25 Yeah. And if we created it, we have the power to change it.
Speaker 3 01:00:29 Exactly.
Speaker 2 01:00:31 Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:00:32 I can, I can say, okay, we should have, uh, we can change the nature that we have more, uh, uh, uh, oil in the future, and that we have ra rare earth in the future, and then we have more oxygen and less carbon. We can't change that, but we can change it in the context of humanity and say whatever we, we do, we can't do this because we can't breathe in Beijing in, uh, Olympics. You know, we can't breathe. So it's not, Tanisha doesn't care. And by the way, without humans, systems are irrelevant. Who cares about systems? If there's no humans, you think that Jaff cares because Apple went down there, you know, and it is just, you know. Yeah. It, it, it doesn't. Yeah. And we have, we, and if we behave in a way that isn't suited to nature, we will extinguish ourself. I mean, you know, nature keeps going on. There's no dinosaurs anymore, because they were not, they were not assisted. They were not Nature adapt.
Speaker 2 01:01:38 Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:01:39 And we show the same thing. We are not adapting to nature. We are just adapting to systems. And I think that's where the breakdown is. Thank you for, for being such a great canvas too. Cuz I never thought about that, you know, <laugh> and I never thought about these things because this shows you the superpower of the dialogue. A lot of things that I said today, crystal, I've never, I, I say always, I say always the elephant and the, and I, I use those things. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it going into depths with you. That's really nice.
Speaker 2 01:02:08 Well, I'm really glad that I could provide a space for you to just go for it, <laugh>.
Speaker 3 01:02:15 But what do, what systems say space isn't worth anything. Space is more words because I can't paint without a canvas. I can't make music without silence. This is more wor without the space, the feminine, you know, without the space, you can't, there is nothing.
Speaker 2 01:02:35 Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:02:35 You need space and, and, and silence, you know?
Speaker 2 01:02:39 Yeah. Is there any, we are running short on time. Is there anything else that you would really want to impart or mention before we have to sign off?
Speaker 3 01:02:54 No, there's so much in this episode that I would, I would love to keep relo. I mean, this is amazing. What's, what's happened in this episode? So I hope that people keep re-listening and hey, if you think something, what I said is not right, uh, and it's not about right or wrong, but, uh, you can, uh, associate with it and then, you know, write to you, they should write to you. Yeah. And we do a, uh, a second one where we answer all the questions. How's that?
Speaker 2 01:03:22 Sure. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Yeah. If there's anything that you guys want us to dive in deeper on, or if you have other questions, you want clarification or you Yeah. Don't really agree, feel free to comment and, and we can absolutely revisit this because Yeah, I know I'll be listening to it multiple times. Um, there are things that piqued my interest and then we kept moving so fast that I couldn't really dive into the other things deeper. And so this has been very enlightening. Very much. I am so grateful for you coming on and letting us connect today. So thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3 01:03:57 Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:03:59 Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 3 01:04:01 And I'm not a part of system, you see, I'm actually ex expressing. Yeah. I'm ex I I'm actually living what I preach. Yeah. I, I, because, you know, obviously I was influenced by, by systems. I was born in the hospital and so, but, but because I couldn't, because of my NeuroD diversities, I couldn't.
Speaker 2 01:04:25 Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:04:26 And now I show you that even according to system, I have a zero value system value, you know, I'm not a, a money maker, you know? Yeah. But, but, but look at what, what, what this, what ha what, what, what this did. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:04:43 So, so if, if people wanna, if people wanna touch base with you, connect with you, find you, how do they do that?
Speaker 3 01:04:51 You just, I have just one hub. That's Michael m.com Michael, with two ls, Michael, m i c h a e l l m.com. And then you find all the social and everything, uh, on it.
Speaker 2 01:05:05 Beautiful. <laugh>, I wanna thank you again for being here today, and until next time, we'll see you again here on Breathe In. Breathe Out.
Speaker 4 01:05:16 Thank
Speaker 3 01:05:17 You.
Speaker 1 01:05:22 I hope this moment of self-care and healing brought you some hope and peace. I'm Crystal Kowski on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, and I hope you check us out and follow along for more content coming soon. I look forward to being with you again here on Breathe In. Breathe out. Until next time, take care.
