Episode Transcript
Think meditation is hard? Do me a favor, take a slow deep breath in and now breathe out. Congratulations, you just meditated. Hi, I’m Krystal Jakosky, and this is Breathe In, Breathe Out: a Weekly Mindfulness and Meditation podcast for anyone ready to own their shit and find a little peace while doing it.
This is Krystal Jakosky with Breathe In, Breathe Out and before we get to the main episode, I just wanna tell you we are human and we had a little bit of a snafu in the recording of this next episode and I hope that you can look past the humanness of it and the sound quality and just enjoy the content and the conversation that I got to have with this wonderful, beautiful human being. So without further ado, I hope you enjoy today's episode.
Krystal Jakosky: Hello, and welcome back to Breathe In, Breathe Out. I am Krystal Jakosky and as always, I am so glad that you're here. I'm honored that you've decided to spend this time with us and expand your horizons and just be the amazing you that you are showing up in this world. You know, I told you guys that we're gonna introduce you to different stuff and different ways that you can take care of yourself and different people that can help you or inspire you on your own journey. And today I'm excited because we have Tami Kiekhaefer, LCSW. We're gonna ask her all that. What does it mean? She has operated a successful psychotherapy practice since 2002. She provides individual family and couples therapy around anxiety, depression, domestic violence, trauma relationships, and personal empowerment. Tami is a certified yoga instructor and she weaves concepts of holistic therapy into her clinical work. So I'm really glad that she's here and welcome today.
Tami Kiekhaefer: Thank you, thanks for having me on.
Krystal Jakosky: Licensed clinical social worker, right? LCSW?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Yep. That's correct.
Krystal Jakosky: In the moment my brain went, wait, what am I doing here? Oh, let's pause, brain fart. It's all good. It happens to the best of us. So you’ve had this successful practice since 2002. What brought you to psychotherapy?
Tami Kiekhaefer: You know, I was one of those rare people who kind of knew my entire life, what I wanted to do. And I remember I was, I was in my geometry class and, and I'm not a math person and it was 10th grade and it hit me. I was like, I wanna be a therapist. I wanna have a private practice. And I just, I kind of, um, I, I started learning more about it and I got my bachelor's and I've worked, I've worked in all kinds of areas, um, in the criminal system and inpatient/outpatient schools. I've had groups and, and then I, I, um, along the way, got my master's and I've just kind of had my eye on the goal of having a private practice. And I absolutely love it. Every day is different. And I never know who's gonna be sitting on my couch next and, or in my zoom room, uh, these days <laugh> just, I just love my job.
Krystal Jakosky: It hit you when you were in tenth grade. What was your exposure to counseling and that kind of social work? What was your exposure before that?
Tami Kiekhaefer: I, you know, I think I was always the person in my family who, um, everyone came to talk to and my friends came to talk to, um, I think I've, I've always been empathetic and I, I think just kind of seeing things big picture and how I've described it before is that I feel like everyone kind of has a puzzle, their own little puzzle box, and your picture is on the front. And sometimes it gets all jumbled up and you have to like put your pieces back together. And I've always, I've always looked at that. Like, there's a “why” behind the behavior. And that's always been fascinating to me whether, you know, I was, I was younger working with my friends or talking to my friends about their problems or, uh, yeah. So it's just kind of always been, uh, connecting with people and helping people has kind of always been my thing.
Krystal Jakosky: I really love that statement. The “why” behind the behavior <laugh> is because we don't, we don't just act the way we act. There's a reason that we are reacting to something that somebody said. There is a reason that we don't like this or that or the other, and taking a moment to say why I don't, I don't think that we often enough do that. Let's all be little kids. Why, why is the sky blue?
Tami Kiekhaefer: I love that. Exactly. But why, but why?
Krystal Jakosky: I did that, but why?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Some of us have lots and lots and lots and lots of whys behind the behavior. So you have to dig and dig and dig and, and, uh, and that's okay because pretty soon all of it becomes clear and, and then you have the power to change it. Cause now you know why.
Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. And you, as you said, it's, they have all of those whys, but those whys are like a protective layer before you get to what's really going on. It's like, well, because I think we do that so that we can avoid going deeper, avoid trying to admit that we don't know, or avoid facing something unbelievably challenging. That's like just sitting there saying huh.
Tami Kiekhaefer: Yeah, it's scary. It can be very scary. And I think that that's why, you know, I guess also in my, in my practice, I know when people come in for the very first time, they're nervous and you know what, I'm nervous too. Um, I'll kind of have a few jitters before I meet somebody new. Like, oh my gosh, are they gonna, are they gonna like it here? Are they gonna like me? Are they gonna feel comfortable? And so I, you know, I really that's. The first part is just helping people feel more comfortable because if you're not open, then I don't know what's going on. And if I don't know what's going on, then I can't help you. So it can be scary to look in the mirror and own your stuff.
Krystal Jakosky: It's okay to cuss. My tagline is own your shit. It's OK. What, are some of the biggest conceptions of talk therapy that you have come up against that you feel are hurdles for people going in to get help?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Um, I think, I think just opening up, I think making that first phone call to say, I think I need help. Um, that's a tough one, because like you said, all of the little protectors that we have around us all the time, I mean, you have to have per protectors because otherwise you never get anything done. You just be kind of a bubbly mess I would anyway. So, I think that, yeah, um, I think making that first phone call and just saying like, I don't know what else to do. I feel like I've tried everything that I can do. Um, and I think that you know, I rarely get the phone call of someone saying, I think I'm getting ready to go into a crisis. Um, that never happens. <laugh> people are like, I need to get in now when's your first opening. And, and it's, I mean, people, we do, we just wait too long to make that phone call every now and then I'll. Yeah.
Krystal Jakosky: I want everyone to hear that for a second. I really wanna repeat it in a different way. You mean that talk therapy is not only for people in a state of crisis, it's actually beneficial before you get there.
Tami Kiekhaefer: 100%
Krystal Jakosky: Because I think that's a misconception people have is that only people in crisis have it only people in crisis, go talk to somebody and need that extra boost or need that extra direction in life. And having that relationship with a therapist ahead of the crisis means that you're not panicking. And you're not for lack of a better word dating around, trying to find a therapist that really jives with you and understands you and works with you. So, um, if you hear me correctly, I'm just gonna tell you right now, it's great to look for that ahead of time and say, you know what? I hear that it's good. And maybe it's something that I could use and maybe I'll just kind of go check it out and see what's there and see if there's somebody that can help me. And you might be surprised at how much easier life becomes because you have that safe space, an objective friend, for lack of a better word that you can go to and just say, Hey, this is a problem for me.
Tami Kiekhaefer: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, uh, because I think you think about how often people are actually in crisis enough to pick up the phone. Um, I mean, hopefully not 24/7, but, and it doesn't last 24/7, so the crisis hits, and then there's the panic. And then that's, that's when you pick up the phone and, and find someone? You know, you're right. It's like you're in panic mode, you're in survival mode. So then the, then the crisis goes away and you're like, ah, I don't really need a therapist. I got this, I got this. But then the next crisis happens and then they start building. And now all of a sudden, you've got a different level of anxiety, a different level of toxicity in your relationship. And so why wait?
Krystal Jakosky: I really want you to think about this guy. When was the last time you were in crisis and you actually picked up the phone and called somebody and said, I need help? I think the majority of us when we're in crisis actually shut down more and it's less about reaching out for help. And it's more about survival and just trying to get through what we're going through so you don't reach out. And then the next time that thing comes around, it's just bigger because you didn't have the bandwidth when you were in crisis to find that trusted source that you can talk to. Right? Yeah. Not really where I expected this conversation to go. And yet I'm very, very glad that we're going there. <laugh>, that's fantastic.
Tami Kiekhaefer: It is. I like it when I'm watching a hockey game or football game and they're talking about mental health and they're talking about men in mental health and they're talking about, you know, Sondermind has a ton of advertisements and I'm like, wow. In the middle of a hockey game, they're encouraging people to get into therapy. Like, this is amazing. This is great because the stigma of like, something's wrong with me or, um, or I'm broken or I'm a mess, or, you know, no one's ever gonna want me because of my counseling or just all those kinds of things that you tell yourself. They're just so false. And you're just such a better person when you can do some self-reflecting and, and feel good about yourself. And when you feel good about yourself, you're gonna be so much more available for healthy relationships, whether it's your neighbor or a colleague or a family member or a romantic partner. But yeah, I mean it, yeah.
Krystal Jakosky: Realistically it helps you in the self-ownership aspect of life because I don't know very many people that can take constructive criticism from a family member or a close friend. It really just makes them mad that you're judging them and telling them how to live their life and yet going into a counselor, um, or a therapist and actually talking and saying, this is where I'm at. And having them help you understand where you're at and helping you see a different perspective allows for deeper self-introspection and deeper ownership - ownership of your shit. Yes. See there. That was a Freudian slip. Oh, I like that. I like that. It's kinda a new word. What's your ownershit, what's your ownershit? I wanna know. Yeah. So it's, it's a lot easier to do that with a trusted other outside party than it is somebody who is too close to the relationship or too close to you in that moment as somebody like, I wanna talk about toxic relationships because this is an example and it segues right into it.
A therapist can help you see that this relationship is toxic for you and not benefiting you in healthy ways. Whereas a family member says that it's really common to say, screw you. I'm gonna do what I wanna do. And the therapist can help you say, okay. So how does this feel for you? And is this beneficial? Is it bringing you more joy than pain and sorrow? How do you know, like what's the definition of toxic in relationships and communication? How do you know what that is?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Hmm. I, that's a really good question because you hear “toxic relationship” and it's a very, it's a very vague term. I think that I would look at a toxic relationship as, um, I guess in my own life. I try to strive to be around people who after I leave them after our connection, after our dinner, lunch, whatever, whatever I feel better afterward, I feel good after my interaction with that person.
And, maybe I look at toxic relationships as someone who you're close with, you're supposed to be comfortable to be vulnerable with. And if most of the time you feel horrible about yourself after your interaction, if most of the time you don't allow yourself to be vulnerable with that person because you're afraid or you don't trust them, or, um, a fear, I mean, fear drives it. I mean, I would kind of say, that's your toxic relationship.
Krystal Jakosky: So it's really paying attention to where you're at, how you feel, and how you feel in that relationship. Is this a beneficial, beautiful, positive thing? Or is this something that's actually causing me this ease and unrest and upset?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Yes. Yeah, I would say so. How do you feel in that relationship? I think that you know, there's, I, I have the foundation of a relationship is something that I talk with my clients a lot about. And I think that there are four areas that are the foundation of any relationship and that's respect, trust, communication, and appreciation. And, and you can, if those, if any of those areas are cracked, um, for a romantic relationship, most of the time intimacy is the first thing to go in the last thing to come back. But any relationship, if you think about it, um, you know, maybe, maybe those four areas, the foundational areas are ways to gauge. If your relationship is toxic or not, do you feel respect? Do you feel trust? And trust isn't just like, oh, I'm cheating on somebody or affairs. I mean, it's like a trusting atmosphere that you can be yourself, that you can talk about. The things that you wanna talk about, that you feel comfortable asking a question to question your partner. And, you know, you've gotta have a trusting atmosphere for that. And then you've gotta be able to communicate. So maybe if those areas are compromised and you could gauge your level of toxicity based on those.
Krystal Jakosky: I love that. I love that right there, level of toxicity. It's not that somebody or something is absolutely 100% bad for you. There are levels and there are warning signs and there are things that we can be aware of and say, wait a minute, if we're in tune with ourselves, if we're owning our shit and saying, no, no, no, this is where I'm at. Then, you know, oh, you know what? “I like being around you. And we communicate really well, but I don't trust that person to…” and maybe that's an opportunity to say, Hey, let's communicate about this area and you can improve it. So it's not like, just because something is toxic, quote-unquote in your life doesn't mean that it's doomed or that it's like, you gotta cut it out. I think you have an opportunity. Right?
Tami Kiekhaefer: And, and I think, yeah, the level I like that you pointed that out. The level of toxicity. I think a lot of times people stay in a really bad relationship because they say, well, they're not cheating on me and I'm not getting beat up and I'm not. So, you know, it can't be that bad and there's not, you know, a ton of drugs, alcohol, and whatever. And it's like, man, but look at how you get treated. You know, there's no respect or you're constantly being put down or, um, dismissed or, or just not cared for. I think there's toxicity in that also. And I think a lot of times people justify staying because it's not that bad.
Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. Where is your level? Where is your threshold? And what, like, what is your limit, your personal, where am I at? And how do I, and I think that comes into personal self-worth, which is, I'm sure something that you end up having to work with a lot, people just valuing themselves in their relationships and in the life that they're going through of, I deserve this, or I deserve that compared to it’s okay.
Tami Kiekhaefer: Yeah. <laugh> and, uh, confidence. Self-worth. And unfortunately, when you've been in a relationship that is pretty toxic in one way or another, your confidence goes down, it takes a hit, and then you start second-guessing yourself. And you, you don't say, I wait a second. I deserve to be treated well. I, you know, you just like, well, I'm really lucky to have somebody who, um, you know, says hi to me and you just start compromising everything about yourself. And, and, um, and it's, it's sad to watch that.
Krystal Jakosky: It just makes my heart sad. It just makes my heart heavy. I just wanna hug every person. That's like, no, I deserve this cuz no, no, no, no. You deserve so much better. Like come into Tami’s office, call me up. I'll give you a nice little virtual <laugh>
Tami Kiekhaefer: There's an enormous influence on how you grew up. And uh <laugh> and it's not going back and like blaming mom and dad for all your stuff. That's not what it's about. It's about understanding how you grew up and understanding what was role modeled to you as far as showing love, showing affection, um, being heard as a little kid, um, knowing that your opinion is respected. Um, I think, you know, I, I do a lot of, um, my therapy, something that I believe in very much is the, uh, attachment theory. And it's that between zero and three years old how you, um, learn how to trust other people, how you learn how to trust the world, how you learn, how to have empathy that's developed during that zero to three age range.
And if there are a lot of inconsistencies, I mean, there are always inconsistencies. Um, you know, I have two kids and I was always like, oh my God, I'm screwing, 'em up, I'm screwing 'em up. I'm, it's zero to three. I've gotta be, like, perfect. And, and, um, nobody is so I've screwed up my kids probably every single day, but they're great. Um, but yeah, that <laugh> that zero to three is crucial because you're learning, you're learning trust. Um, and when there are a lot of inconsistencies, that's where I believe that a lot of the personalities are developed. So narcissism dependency, borderline, um, and we all probably have little bits and pieces of all of the different personality types. There's a bunch of 'em. Um, but when you see somebody who is very, very narcissistic, you know, you look at how they grew up and there are likely some pretty big attachment issues that they were up against.
Maybe their caregivers weren't available to them. You know, they had to learn to rely on themselves to get their needs met. Um, they didn't, it's that they didn't learn how to be vulnerable. They didn't learn how to trust their environment and trust people around them. So they grow up, like, I'm not gonna let anybody close to me. I'm gonna get my needs met, you know? And, and that's like a nutshell kind of description. But, I think that how you grew up definitely impacts you on how you move forward, and what your relationships are gonna look like going forward. Um, how you learned how to communicate, how you learned, how to pro uh, problem-solve when in your family. Huge.
Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. Yeah. Did your parents talk through their conflicts or did they yell, you know, like how did people talk to each other? Was it a respectful environment or was it a challenging environment?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Or did anyone talk at all? Maybe no one talked and then it, yeah. And so any kind of conflict is just like, ah, my world ending, cuz you never saw conflict growing up.
Krystal JakoskY: Yeah. It's, it's really this, this, like, this huge spectrum and we are all on that spectrum somewhere with any kind of issue, whether it be anxiety or depression or even narcissism, we all have those little bits of, and we're on that spectrum somewhere. And yet it's how we find balance. It's how we find self-care, how we take care of our own needs. That will then improve the way that we show up for other people. So if we're feeling anxious, what do we need and how do we help ourselves through that? And if that's coming to you and talking, or if that's a little meditation and, and personal whatever you know, something that, you know, already works for you, you have to do that because you know your own experience, you know your childhood experience and you know what your relationships are like now. So it's, it's just huge in that self-ownership thing.
You know, not everything that I bring up is gonna work for everybody. You know, everyone is gonna find a little something somewhere that really resonates with them and helps them out. And I'm a firm believer that I may ask one question, you may give nine answers, but of those nine answers, something really hit somebody. And they were like, oh my gosh, that's what means, whoa, that hit really hard. And so I love all those answers because it just expands the possibility of people connecting to it and being able to say, that's me, I get that. I see that. I feel that. And so they're more open to it, you know?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Yeah. And you know, I think you're right, like going back and, and I'm sure there were tons of mistakes that I could look back and look at, you know, my family and my parents and, and whatever. But I think that it goes back to that whole, the why behind the behavior, and that's where you have the power to change. So if you go back, you know, a lot of times people go back into their childhood, there's a lot of trauma for some people. And looking back, even, I don't know, even, you know, middle school, high school, like no one wants to redo middle school. There's a lot of trauma that goes on <laugh>.
And so it's not like you wanna go back and relive it, but that's a lot of times where, you know, your identity and, and I would never tell a middle school teacher this, and I've got a lot of friends that are middle school, but it's not so much about the academics in that time period. It's the socialization, you know, and, and you go into, um, I always think you go into like middle school with this level of confidence, especially women and girls and, and then middle school happens and you go, you just kinda shrink and, and question yourself and maybe I don't look like everyone else. And what if I, you know, what, if I'm single forever and I'm gonna be a nun with cats and, and you know, whatever. And, and so middle school is huge for going back and looking at where's my confidence, how do I feel about myself? What do I need to do, what did other people tell me that I thought was like, the word of, I don't know, the universe. And, um, and it's like, man, you can undo what somebody said in your brain and rewire it to be something that's empowering. Something that you can challenge all these thoughts and tapes that are in your head, from how you grew up from parents, from friends, from teachers, from coaches. And, and you can rewire that at any time and, and improve your sense of self and your confidence.
Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. Yeah. I applaud middle school teachers. I think that they are saints because to be in middle school, to choose to be in this hormonal shifting upheaval of these, this, these youth and they're, they are in the depth of trying to figure out what the heck is going on with their bodies and who they are, and trying to figure out socially where they belong and what, like, it is so huge for those kids. They are going through so much and to be a teacher that is able to be present and help them through that and just be like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. You're amazing, my hats off to you. And I just thank you for choosing to be in that space. I thank you for choosing to give yourself to those kids because they need that. And it's a beautiful gift.
And then another thing that you said, um, a conversation I have had multiple times with multiple people and clients, is this: that yes, you grew up, yes, you had a difficult time. Yes. There was a really shitty bully in middle school or high school or whatnot. Here's my question for you. Do you think that their actions were intentional? When you fought on that playground with somebody, do you think that they intentionally thought I wanna hurt this person today because I'm having a bad day? Do you think that your parents intentionally imprinted something on you that was, you know, like mom didn't have a lot of time for you? Well, do you think that she did that intentionally and said, I don't wanna spend time with you, or was that just a product of the way that mom's life was and mom was doing the best that she absolutely could?
When we, as you said, look back and unwind and see what are the circumstances and what were the things that were happening at that moment. And when you honor, not only the people around you, put yourself in that, because you made a pattern, you chose to make a pattern or habit from that experience. So when you go back and you honor that, and you say, you know what, I see that that happened and that really sucked. And yet I'm gonna give myself a hug and say, Hey, good job, high five for surviving that. And I'm gonna let everybody else give them the respect that they need because they were obviously going through their own shit at the time. And now you're better here because it's like, yeah, I don't have to go through that again. And my intention is completely different and I can live a little bit freer. So that was really beautiful. Thank you for bringing it up. <laugh>
Tami Kiekhaefer: Yeah. And, um, and I think, yeah, I think with anyone, and so you go through that in middle school and then you go into a job in your twenties and there's that bully person there. And then you go into a job in your thirties and there's your boss who's a bully, or, you know, I mean, it's not like it ever ends. It's just that going back to the why behind the behavior, if you personalize their stuff, it's highly not likely it's not about you. I mean, if you have to go back and say, oh, well, it's probably because I did this and this and this to them, then yeah, you gotta own your stuff, but otherwise, um, it's not about you.
It has nothing to do with you. And it, and I guess I look at it going back to toxic relationships, to be in a relationship with a toxic person, um, better just reacting to their own inner turmoil. And you happen to be the person who chose to be with them. Um, and it doesn't have to be like that. You're not responsible for someone else's negativity and inner turmoil. And you cannot fix it. You cannot fix it. <laugh> You can't fix someone else. <laugh>
Krystal Jakosky: Oh, no, exactly. Hear that guys. You cannot fix someone else. It all starts within. It all starts with you and who you are. So if you are taking care of your own shit, if you are recognizing that you had this challenge and you are reacting this way, you'll treat other people better. It doesn't mean that you can make other people treat you better. It means that you are treating yourself better and life is a lot better. Life just improves. You've given yourself that allowance, that permission, that acknowledgment that mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Oh, Tami, is there anything else that you wanna bring up today that you wanna chit chat about?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Um, let's see. I think, you know, I, I just, I want to, um, first thank you for letting me be on here, but, but just for people to know how much control you actually have over your own life. I think that a lot of people don't give themselves the amount of, um, recognition and confidence that you have so much control over your own life. And, and even the things that you feel completely out of control over, you can, you can tease out areas that you still have control. And when, when you realize that, I think your confidence goes up because your anxiety goes down, confidence up anxiety down. Um, and, and it is, I just, um, I hope that people can recognize that if you're in a bad space, go talk to somebody, go, go get some help, just get a second opinion. Um, yeah.
Krystal Jakosky: And if you're not in a bad space and you just want a little extra boost, or you wanna find that perfect person for when you are in a bad space, right. Check 'em out, find it out. It's out there too. <laugh> right. I, uh, grabbed a little, uh, quote from your website and I absolutely loved it. That's why I grabbed it. It says, “as we all know if you want to be happy in your job, your relationship, your friendships, it starts with you. If you want to be less anxious, more confident and have consistent boundaries, it starts with you. If you want to be available for a healthy, loving relationship, it also starts with you.”
You are the creator of your life. You are the one who gets to say, no, no, no, I want this. Instead, I want that. And we, we are like Tami and I are here just saying, do it, like, do it, dig in, find out how you could be better and how you can let go of all that stuff. That's just holding you down and toxic and not being where you want to be so that you can start creating where you do wanna be.
Tami Kiekhaefer: And that was the basis behind my book. It's out on, on Amazon. Um, and it's actually an online course also, but it's called Preparing for the Jungle: Avoiding Snakes and Pitfalls on the Path to Healthy Love. And, and it, that's why I wrote the book is because it has to start with you, but I take you through the family roles, the, how you attached the why you're attracted to certain types of people, how you communicate, how you resolve conflict, um, what your non-negotiables are. Look, how do you know what a healthy relationship is versus a toxic relationship? Um, what makes a healthy relationship and a checklist at the end to say, like, who's my person, what am I even looking for? Cause if you go out there and you're like, I just choose you. Um, I don't know, how's that gonna work for you? Well, we've all done it before. So how does that work for any of us? <laugh> um, but, but I just, I just believe in that wholeheartedly, that it does start with you and, and I wanna give you that starting place. And how do you know? So that's the basis of my book, and it's also on an online course that I'll personally walk you through. Um, so it's a more in-depth experience, but that's the basis of it is it starts with you. What do you want your life to look like? And times just ticking’. So if you don't wanna figure it out now, you'll have an opportunity in a year to figure it out. Um, cuz all that stuff will still be waiting for you just hanging out.
Krystal Jakosky: Yeah. Not gonna leave. So two little things before we go, I have a couple of questions that I just wanna ask you, orange or green?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Green.
Krystal Jakosky: OK. City or country?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Country.
Krystal Jakosky: Large groups or personal time?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Personal time.
Krystal Jakosky: Pine trees or salty ocean air?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Pine trees.
Krystal Jakosky: Which season and why?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Spring because everything is new and fresh and clean and growing and yeah.
Krystal Jakosky: Okay. And then self-care is big in this podcast. And so, uh, our listeners wanna know what is your biggest, favorite, or most unique type of self-care that you didn't realize that you enjoy, but actually, really fills your cup?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Hmm. That's a good one. Um, I think I love being with my family. I love being with my kids. I love being with my dog. Um, I love being with my fiance. Um, I, as I thought before COVID that I was very, I wanted to go out. I wanted to, I got a taste of COVID and I gotta tell you, I like just kind of hanging out. I love camping. I love being outside. I love okay. As I'm thinking about more of your questions about sitting by a river, <laugh> sitting by a river. Um, probably like maybe on some rocks in the mountains, um, warm air and just listening to the water.
Krystal Jakosky: Love it, Tami is absolutely fantastic. She has a website, healthyhealing.com, and then absolutely check out her book, Preparing for the Jungle: Avoiding Snakes and Pitfalls on the Path to Love. Is there any other way that people can get in touch with the youth that you really wanna highlight right now?
Tami Kiekhaefer: Um, I have a Facebook group. It's a women's empowerment toolkit group and it's just for women. Um, and it's a private group. I monitor everything there. Um, but it's a great group. Um, I post, I encourage everybody to post, but I post, um, very inspirational type things, healings, self-confidence, self-empowerment. Um, and it's all just about where are you? What do you have going on and how can you feel better about where you are today? So women's empowerment tool, kit group. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a great place for people to start.
Krystal Jakosky: I love it, Tami. Thank you so much for being with us and for just talking about the truth and the reality of therapy and how toxic stuff fits into it and how personal ownership really is the biggest foundation that we can build, to begin with, and then grow from there and branching out. So I really appreciate you being here and spending time with us today.
Tami Kiekhaefer: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Krystal Jakosky: Yeah, absolutely. Until next week you guys, uh, we'll see you again on breathing, breathe out.
I hope this moment of self-care and healing brought you some hope and peace. I’m @krystaljakosky on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube and I hope you check us out and follow along for more content coming soon. I look forward to being with you again here on Breathe In, Breathe Out. Until next time, take care.
